Wednesday, April 19, 2006

Christian and Muslim Debate the Quran

http://www.alainsnewsletter.com/article.php?id=386
By Ahmed Simon

John – Tell me Ahmad, why did your prophet Muhammud claim that he talked with an angel, and this angel carried the conversation to Allah and vice-versa; unlike our prophets who communicated direct with God?

Ahmad – That is what my Quran says in sura 2.67 (chapter/verse in the Quran).

John – In sura 22.52, Allah says he removed Satan’s verses from the Quran. How sure are you that all Satan’s verses were removed and how did Satan get to the Quran?

Ahmad – I really don’t know, John. That is what is said in sura 22.52 of the Quran.

John – In sura 2.106 & 16.101, it says Allah (Muslim God), cancelled many verses in the Quran and added better verses. What made Allah change his mind, and wasn’t the initial verses of Allah any good? Why did Allah correct his own work?

Ahmad – That is what the Quran says in those suras. I don’t know why it is mentioned.

John – Your prophet Muhammud waged various wars. What did he do with the booty?

Ahmad – He killed the Christians and Jews, in Saudi Arabia, and took their wives and daughters (always the best for himself before passing the rest to his companions). The same applied to their belongings. He also fought wars, with the Arabs and some muslims.

John – In sura 33.37 of the Quran, it says prophet Muhammud married his daughters-in-law while their husbands (his sons) were still with him? Wasn’t all his women enough?

Ahmad – Prophet Muhammud had a great sexual appetite. He had 12 wives, numerous concubines, temporary wives and female slaves. He even married a 9 year old girl, named Aisha when he was 52 (9 years in muslim calender is 8 years in our Gregorian calendar. Present 40 years will be 44 years old in the muslim calendar. Somebody goofed).

John – Why did prophet Muhammud overrule Allah who created 1 woman for 1 man, and allow muslims to have 4 wives at any one time? Can prophet Muhammud overrule Allah?

Ahmad – It sounds ridiculous to me also. But how do you know so much about Islam?

John – From www.islamreview.com and their links. Try it. Doesn’t the Quran say in sura 2.62 & 5.69 that all Jews and Christians will go to Heaven?

Ahmad – I know, but resent that sura and I don’t know why it is stated in the Quran.

John – Why does the Quran also say in sura 19.71 that all muslims will go to Hell?

Ahmad – Though it’s not said, I hope, after spending time, some like me,will be saved.

John – In sura 43.61 it says Jesus the Messiah will come again on Judgement day.

Ahmad – It is, John.

John – In sura 21 Abraham destroyed the idols, then, why keep idols in the Kaba in Mecca. Aren’t muslims facing and praying to these idols in the Kaba (Mecca) today?

Ahmad – I suppose they must be holy idols, John.

John – I cannot understand sura 2.142-144 of the Quran, which basically says the Qibla(direction to face to pray), was changed from Mecca to Jerusalem and back to Mecca again. Isn’t Allah everywhere? Why face one spot on earth to pray to Allah?

Ahmad – I did not know the Qibla was changed and rechanged.I must check this sura.

John – Why did prophet Muhammud’s soul go to Jerusalem to rise to Allah? Isn’t the Kaba the house of Allah? Then, shouldn’t he have risen from the Kaba (Mecca)?

John – The Quran in sura 3.106,107 says Allah recognized white people, as good and black people as bad. Why did Allah judge people based on the colour of their skin?

Ahmad – Prophet Muhammud had very fair skin colour according to Bukhari. I have to check this sura to see why Allah said black was bad.

John – The Arabs invented Slavery, and even prophet Muhammud had hundreds of slaves himself, so did all his companions. Isn’t this slavery in muslim nations continuing today?

Ahmad – Not so rampant today, as before though.

John – Every muslim is required to pray for 365 days a year with no exception, for subuh at 5.23 a.m. syuruk at 6.49 a.m. zuhur at 1.08 p.m. asar at 4.14 p.m. maghrib at 7.16 p.m. and isyak at 8.25 p.m. but Ahmad, with so much of prayer, the muslims still face hell. Prayer in Christianity is not perfomed in a set of obligatory and mechanical rituals as in Islam. In christianity, we pray because we love God and enjoy His presence, and, ultimately, in seeking an even closer presence in Heaven. The pleasures of Heaven in Christianity is life in the presence of God.

Ahmad - (In Silence).

John – In sura 7.157 the Quran says prophet Muhammud was illiterate (cannot read or write and uneducated) and so were all his companions. Most of the suras in chapter 18 refer to them living in caves. Why did Allah pick such man as his messenger.

Ahmad – (In Silence).

John – In sura 4.11 & 2.282 the Quran says a male’s inheritance is double that of a female, (A legal will is not allowed in Islam). It also says one male witness equals to two female witnesses. Why are muslim females only half of a male?

Ahmad – Females are recognized as inferior, because Allah made man superior, period.

John -The Quran says in sura 96.1 & 96.2 that man was created from a blood clot, but 21.3 & 24.45 says from water,19.67 from nothing, 3.59 & 35.11 from clay, 15.26 from mud and 16.4 & 75.37 says from a thickened liquid. Which part of the Quran is wrong.

Ahmad –(In silence.)

John – Why stone a woman to death for adultery, while a man is only whipped?

Ahmad – Because women tempt men and that is why they have to cover, head to toe.

John – In sura 4.34 of the Quran, Allah says a disobedient woman should be beaten and deserted by her husband. Isn’t Islam the only religion to sanction this punishment?

Ahmad – Sura 2.223 says women are basically to serve man and Allah is merciful.

John – In sura 2.219 & 5.90 of the Quran, it says muslims must not consume wine, because it is ‘Satan’s Handiwork’. But in sura 47.15, 55.54-56, 83.22, & 83.25 it says repeatedly all male martyrs will go straight to heaven and awarded “voluptuous fair virgin maidens, rivers of wine, best fruits, milk and honey”.Why you cannot drink wine on earth, but can in heaven? How did ‘Satan’s Handiwork’ get to Heaven? Is this why muslims are committing suicide in the name of Allah, to have virgins, etc in Heaven- Sex Maniacs? Is this the only way muslim males can go direct to Heaven and why not muslim females? In my opinion, these men will be sadly disappointed when Satan welcomes them in Hell, for killing innocent men, women and children, don’t you think?

Ahmad – (In silence).

John – Nothing to say, Ahmad?

John – Allah orders muslims to kill to spread Islam as stated in sura 4.74. Why?

Ahmad - It was done in the formative years of Islam, not so many nowadays.

John – Allah orders muslims to kill anyone who gives up Islam, in sura 4.86? Is this the only way Allah has, to keep muslims within his fold, by getting other muslims to kill?

Ahmad – (In silence).

John – In sura 9.29 & 9.5 Allah calls muslims to kill unbelievers unless they submit.

Ahmad – (In silence).

John – Why all this killing,Ahmad? Why chop off a person’s right hand and left leg for theft? My God is a creator and not a destroyer.

Ahmad – I am also ashamed, but what can I do? Even muslims are killing more muslims.

My belief is most muslims don’t think of people, but want more money, power and land.

John – After prophet Muhammud and his companions were poisoned to death, according to Bukhari’s Hadith 3.786 & 4.394, but before all of them died, the Jewish widow who served the poisoned mutton, said to prophet Muhammud, “ I wanted to see if you are a real messenger of Allah. If you were, Allah would have saved you and your companions, if not, good riddance to bad rubbish”. She was then ordered to be beheaded. Also according to this Hadith, prophet Muhammud suffered greatly for his last two and a half years, and he finally died on the lap of his favourate child-wife, Aisha. But what puzzles me most is in sura 4.47 of the Quran, which states, Allah confirms the Jewish Torah (Old testament) and the Christian Injil (new testament), and also in sura 3.84 of the Quran, it calls on the muslims to believe! in the Scriptures given to Jesus the Messiah. The original Manuscripts of the Dead Sea Scrolls, dated 650 B.C. to 70 A.D. now publicly displayed in the Jerusalem University Museum, further confirms everything in the Bible. Then why condemn and criticize the Christians and their Bible as wrong?

Ahmad – (In Silence).

John – In sura 16.103 of the Quran, Allah says it is written in clear Arabic, but in sura 3.7 it also says, only Allah can interpret this clear Arabic in the Quran properly. No wonder, each muslim has a different interpretation of the Quran, if asked upon. Do you agree?

Ahmad – The Quran is written in the old Arabic language. And we have ustaz (religious teachers) trained to explain to us the Quran. But I must admit, each ustaz has a different interpretation of the same sura. That is why, if you ask a 100 muslims, you could get a 100 different interpretations. Generally, a muslim will tell you, Islam is wonderful, nice, good, great, superb, and all the positives but no substance, because they don’t know how to interpret. You see John, I have read your Bible, but the Quran has no such sequence, no such chronology or history, no pattern, no geography, no biography, no prophecy, just verses in a jumbled up fashion. A chapter will contain different subjects all jumbled up in a haphazard manner within this chapter. The chapter which comes first, is just because, it is the l! ongest in length, followed by the next longest and so forth, and finally the shortest chapter. One sura might say something reasonable, but another will be the opposite, in complete contradiction. The entire Quran is supposed to be from Allah, but actually it is as though different Allahs (Gods) or authors, wrote the different chapters or even parts of the chapter due to the varying styles, fashions, words used, patterns, and content. For example you mentioned the wife beating sura 4.34, it says just that. It does not say how many beatings, where, when, how, which part of her body, how hard, for what, why etc. I suppose, it is left to her husband’s discretion to just slap his wife or beat her to a pulp. Because the suras are mostly left open-ended like this, it leads to all sorts of diagnosis or interpretations. And no expert can honestly say, whether an action by a muslim is correct or wrong. What the word quran means in Arabic is to read and that is all a muslim has to do, minus ! the und erstanding. This is my honest answer. If a muslim hears me say this, it will be his duty to bring it up and a religious authority will put a Fatwa (Islamic Decree) on my life (just like Salman Rushdie who is hiding for 25 years and also thousands have been killed), and believe me, some muslims, fed up of life, will use this ticket (opportunity) to go to heaven, and kill me, and might include my family too.

John – I thank you for your honesty. But I also blame, Human Rights groups, NGOs, Workers’ Unions, etc. whose constitution is grossly violated by the Quran, and yet the muslims use them against non-muslims, when it suits them, but never on the atrocities created by muslim countries on their own muslim citizens and foreigners. These organizations must get their act right and with the help of Governments, have the Quran, re-written, remove all violence, gender bias, etc.which do not comply with the United Nations Human Rights Convention. In the guise of religious freedom, no religion should be allowed to perpetuate inhuman atrocities against humans, period. Only then this world will see peace, happiness and prosperity.

Ahmad – What you are proposing John, is to tear off most of the Quran’s pages.

(Please distribute copies of this factual and undeniable article,( I was a former Islamic religious teacher and please believe me, what is said above is true. Go to Links in this website for further confirmations if need be), and help to make as many people as possible, aware of the need for peaceful solutions to the world’s problems, and if wars are necessary to bring about ultimate peace, then, it should be fought by us for a peaceful world, We owe it to our children, parents, brothers and sisters or the ultimate price will be far worse and unthinkable. Let us not fool ourselves, the ultimate Goal of Islam is to destroy every non-muslim and create a muslim world, as the evil Quran states in the suras as mentioned above. This is no secret and they pretend to be docile and harmless, and when they are caught, it is we who get shocked. You and I know their Satanic deceit and! aim. M uslims have already started their war by bombing us indiscriminately everywhere, and no place or country is spared. We, non-muslims build and the muslims destroy. We put it up and the muslims bring it down. They are evil parasites. They have already damaged and retarded the world economy and brought misery to so many of us. How sure are you that a muslim you know, is not a terrorist or not aiding another terrorist? Can we risk more misery and destruction in all our countries (not mentioning the loss of lives)? If Islam is so wonderful, why can’t the muslims go back to their muslim countries and receive the 100% Islamic treatment there, instead of coming to our non-muslim countries and complaining about everything we have and do. Let us share our space and country with our unfortunate non-muslim brothers instead. So, readers, whichever country you are in, please make as many people aware of the dangers subscribed in the Quran, by printing, fax, forward, hand-deliver, e-mail t! o all i n your address book and to addresses in your magazines, and photocoping as many sheets as possible of this information and distribute to colleagues, friends, relatives, shops, businesses, clubs, government officials, etc. locally, overseas, and in your travels. Let us together, stop this scourge of cancer from spreading or it will be too late, for the civilized world and future generations to come. Please distribute this information, and keep distributing).

No comments: